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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
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I firmly believe they would be. Guy's a negative influence, both on and off the court.
If Enver traded him, they'd get some very nice pieces - sure, they might drop out of the playoffs in the interim... but how well did they do last season in the playoffs? Better off without him - cut their losses now.
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malice wrote:I firmly believe they would be. Guy's a negative influence, both on and off the court.
If Enver traded him, they'd get some very nice pieces - sure, they might drop out of the playoffs in the interim... but how well did they do last season in the playoffs? Better off without him - cut their losses now. Agree totally- I say trade him while his perceived stock is high, get some quality (and depth most likely) in return and start looking forward... Melo is not going to bring a Championship to Denver with that attitude. Better of with AI running the show.
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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
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TheBigFundamental wrote:
Agree totally- I say trade him while his perceived stock is high, get some quality (and depth most likely) in return and start looking forward... Melo is not going to bring a Championship to Denver with that attitude. Better of with AI running the show.
I think it's that percieved stock that makes him act like that... I think if the Nuggets played it smart they could either trade him for someone (Or several players) with a better attitude for less money or they could put him for sale and hope that it kicks starts his attitude for the better...
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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
Joined: 10/29/2007 Posts: 1,118 Location: glen waverley
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I kept on hearing Melo's name in trade rumours in the offseason, the strongest one being Melo for Billups and Prince. This would have been fantastic for Denver had it happened. A lineup of Billups, AI, Prince, Nene and Camby would have done quite nicely before they dumped Camby. Before they acquired AI I might have disagreed with you both, purely for his talent, but now that AI's in town, I'd much rather have him as the man than Melo. You could get a lot for Melo, what about Deng and Hinrich? Hinrich will soon be expendable in Chicago and Melo is an upgrade talent-wise over Deng. Not sure if the salaries match but it's an idea
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I agree his attitude sucks and Denver could easily be a better side without him. But if the Nuggets look to AI to run the show that is a risk considering his age. How many more years can Iverson play at the elite level? I believe he will be awesome again this year but beyond that who knows? Perhaps a mid-season trade if Denver is going nowhere could be the answer. Problem is by then Melo's perceived value that has been spoken of could be dashed. Either way I can't see any playoffs basketball this season for the Nuggets.
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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
Joined: 5/27/2008 Posts: 2,952 Location: Toronto, shooting hoops with Jason Kapono.
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The Nuggets have deep deep problems, Cap issues, whether to trade AI or Melo plus their in the West and will struggle to even make the Playoffs, i say trade Melo, get some youngers players and blow the rest of the team up and start afresh because at the moment they're going nowhere.
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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
Joined: 6/8/2007 Posts: 1,156 Location: 123 Fake Street
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Sparky_Hughes wrote:The Nuggets have deep deep problems, Cap issues, whether to trade AI or Melo plus their in the West and will struggle to even make the Playoffs, i say trade Melo, get some youngers players and blow the rest of the team up and start afresh because at the moment they're going nowhere. As long as the Nuggets get something of value, it is definately a win-win situation. Just make sure it isnt a Vince Carter Raptors/Nets trade. I have been quite critical of Melo and will be continuing until he pulls his head in. He is already telling the world that he will bring the defence he was playing at the Olympics to the Nuggets this season. Apparently he could always play D but nobody seemed to notice. So Melo, what stopped you from playing defence before????
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If I were an Enver fan, I'd be *****ed. "You mean that you can play D, but you've chosen not to? Where was that during the first round of the playoffs last season???"
Actually surprised how many agree with me. But I think that the Nugs really need to trade him. Of all the players in the NBA... it's Anthony that most reminds me of Michael Vick. At the rate he's going... it's only a matter of time.
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malice wrote:If I were an Enver fan, I'd be *****ed. "You mean that you can play D, but you've chosen not to? Where was that during the first round of the playoffs last season???"
Actually surprised how many agree with me. But I think that the Nugs really need to trade him. Of all the players in the NBA... it's Anthony that most reminds me of Michael Vick. At the rate he's going... it's only a matter of time. He's a scorer and that's it, plus he's not that good a three point shooter so he definitely to me way overrated, but wait Stephen A. Smith just called me before and said their winning the title this year . . .
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Joined: 8/14/2007 Posts: 774
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Why do you insist on calling Denver "Enver", it's quite annoying.
Also Nuggets don't have enough scorers to play without Melo, but that could be changed with a trade.
I honestly think that trading iverson for a up and coming pass first point guard and getting rid of K-Mart (if we haven't already)
Half of the team are not compatible with eachother but 'Melo is definetely a keeper, unless offered something amazing, i wouldn't trade him.
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Joined: 10/29/2007 Posts: 1,118 Location: glen waverley
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breskone wrote:Why do you insist on calling Denver "Enver", it's quite annoying.
Also Nuggets don't have enough scorers to play without Melo, but that could be changed with a trade.
I honestly think that trading iverson for a up and coming pass first point guard and getting rid of K-Mart (if we haven't already)
Half of the team are not compatible with eachother but 'Melo is definetely a keeper, unless offered something amazing, i wouldn't trade him. Because there's no 'D'. The same reason Dirk sometimes gets called Irk and Dallas gets called Allas. Anyway, who do you suppose has an up and coming pass first point guard that would want to trade for Iverson? CP3 and Deron aren't going anywhere, nor is Derrick Rose. Shoot-first point guards aren't in fashion (unless you're in Washington, where they are worth $111 million). Trading Melo is a far better alternative
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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
Joined: 5/22/2008 Posts: 1,328 Location: Australia
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outstrung wrote:
Because there's no 'D'. The same reason Dirk sometimes gets called Irk and Dallas gets called Allas.
Can I just ask why everyone keeps being critical of Denvers defense? Yeh they concede a lot of points per game, but this has nothing to do with their defense, but mainly the high-tempo style of play. Name me how they were a bad defensive side last year?? They had the best shot blocker in Camby, while K-Mart performed admiradly as well. Also, I would rate Iverson a worse defender then Melo, yet I don't see people criticising him. With Camby gone, I'm willing to give Melo the benefit of the doubt when he says he's gonna start being the D'. Everyone is also so critical of his attitude off the court. Yeh he's done some stupid things and rates himself highly, but which NBA player hasn't. Sh it what he's done is nothing compared to rape and women-bashing charges laid on certain other superstars. In fact, compare Melo's attitude to Iverson, and he looks like a saint. Yet what he does off the court has never affected his on-court game. When have you ever seen Melo unfit or miss a large amount of games through injury. Don't know the actual stats but he's probably played in around 90% of matches since his debut. Again, compare this to other players and he rates highly. outstrung wrote:I kept on hearing Melo's name in trade rumours in the offseason, the strongest one being Melo for Billups and Prince. Before they acquired AI I might have disagreed with you both, purely for his talent, but now that AI's in town, I'd much rather have him as the man than Melo. Yeh, when the Billups/Prince Melo trade was thrown around, I would've been happy to see this happen. Prince & Billups more then sufficiently makes up for the lose of Melo. Though they would very much be doing a Boston-like deal, as it only really presented a 2 year window for them to win the championship before Billups & AI got too old. But as a Nuggets fan, I would much prefer to keep Anthony then AI. Melo's best years are ahead of him, AI's are behind him. malice wrote: Enver fans that actually care about the franchise. If Melo keeps going the way he is currently, he'll be the Starbury of his generation. Incredibly gifted, and incredibly selfish.
I took that quote from the other thread.How do you know I don't care about the Nuggets franchise? You can probably tell by how defensive I have gotton over my team & star player that I care deeply about them. I want to see them do their best, but I get upset when people lay the blame solely on Anthony. Melo is the type of player they can build a franchise around. Remember he's young and rich, in the next few years he'll settle down. The Nuggets are not going to win the Championship with the team they got. Getting rid of Camby was a good start for the future, now they need to ship of AI & Martins big contracts. Trade him to Memphis for a draft pick if neccessary. Keep the core young players in Smith, Atkins, Nene, Kleiza and use Melo as the cornerstone. Draft well, pick up a good free agent in 2010 and go from there.
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usherprince wrote: I took that quote from the other thread. Can I just ask why everyone keeps being critical of Denvers defense? Yeh they concede a lot of points per game, but this has nothing to do with their defense, but mainly the high-tempo style of play. Name me how they were a bad defensive side last year?? They had the best shot blocker in Camby, while K-Mart performed admiradly as well.
Also, I would rate Iverson a worse defender then Melo, yet I don't see people criticising him. With Camby gone, I'm willing to give Melo the benefit of the doubt when he says he's gonna start being the D'.
Everyone is also so critical of his attitude off the court. Yeh he's done some stupid things and rates himself highly, but which NBA player hasn't. ***** what he's done is nothing compared to rape and women-bashing charges laid on certain other superstars. In fact, compare Melo's attitude to Iverson, and he looks like a saint. Yet what he does off the court has never affected his on-court game. When have you ever seen Melo unfit or miss a large amount of games through injury. Don't know the actual stats but he's probably played in around 90% of matches since his debut. Again, compare this to other players and he rates highly.
Around 105 PPG, that's enough for me to know they don't play much defense, plus they got rid of Camby, how smart that was even though it was a CAP related issue but still stupid. Anyway we all know Defense wins Championships and it has been proven with the Spurs, Pistons and Celtics, teams like Phoenix, Denver and Golden State play up tempo ball have never even got to the NBA Finals so it's proven that it's all about good D.
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Ummm... no. Pretty much to all of it.
I'll expound upon that tho'.
People are critical of Enver's defense because - quite simply - it doesn't exist. Why do you think Camby has to block shots? Because the rest of the 'D' is a sieve. Iverson? Too short. Melo? Doesn't even play D. Immediately, your two stars are an incredible liability to the team. Sure, AI's a worse defender, but AI's barely 6'0" tall - he has an excuse. And even so - he generates far more turnovers than layback Melo. Melo? Sure is - on D ('mellow'). Except on the bench where he can abuse the team for not bringing their A game - coach included.
And on Melo himself, who else is more likely to do something on a truly Vickian scale? Sure, Ron-ron does stupid stuff, but when it comes to doing ***** that will not only end a career, but pretty much his life - my money'd be on Melo. Guy mixes with out-and-out gangsters. It's only luck thus far that's kept him on court - guy does something boneheaded, gets free, apologises... and within a week or two is doing something stupid again.
Maybe the only reason that you're both a Nugs fan and a Melo fan is you don't live in Colorado. I work with a guy from Colorado (Nugs fan) now, he is not a fan. I've met several (both online and in reality) Nugs fans through my blog - and almost all of them think Enver should trade him. Some adamant, some sadly... but most agree that it'd be the best thing for the franchise.
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They'll be very, very lucky to get rid of Martin's contract now that Isiah's gone. Highly unlikely that they can even move AI. Melo's on a precipice. Continue to screw up, and soon - he becomes impossible to trade.
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Look in my opinion Melo gives his all to the Nuggets and is not responsible for their lack of success. In fact, there is no real player responsible, its more a team chemistry thing. Melo is an out-and-out scorer. Like you (and everyone else) will mention ALL THE TIME, Melo doesn't do much on D'. But so what, that shouldn't be his job. Why the Nuggets decided to get another scorer in Iverson is beyond me. Looking back on it now, it was never gonna work. I would have surrounded him with defensive minded players. I'm not against Melo being traded. Like I said, the Billups/Prince trade excited me. But I AM against him being traded for nothing, ala Camby. And Melo is not impossible to trade. The NBA is a business. He can do whatever he wants off the court, the fact is he has got game and any GM will be willing to take him on. Iverson has been closer to getting jail time then Melo, yet you guys are all touting his trade potential. Off-court drama means fuck all in the NBA, all that matters is what they do ON the court. Look at the Trail Blazers. Look at Kobe 6-7 years ago
Oh and the whole 'he mixes with gansters' crap. So what? 90% of NBA players do, most of them are 'gangsters' themselves.
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I read that Hollinger article too, and yeah sure, the Nuggets play the fastest pace in the league, more possessions, therefore more points allowed. I agree with all of that. However, where I disagree with Hollinger is that this somehow makes the Nuggets a good defensive team. This is BS. He can throw efficiency stats at me but that would all take into account number of possessions and this is the Nuggets primary problem on D. They can't slow anyone down. The good defensive teams such as the Pistons, Celtics and Spurs can slow the pace on defense, make their opponents work hard for 24 seconds for their points and keep teams out of the paint. Nuggets don't do this. AI, Melo, JR don't do this. They allow penetration and easy shots early in the shot clock. The fact that they allow so much penetration accounts for Camby's enormous block totals. So even though Hollinger wants to use his pace total as 'proof' that the Nuggets are an OK team on defense, its actually this pace which makes them a bad defensive team.
And as for the idea of trading AI and building around Melo. Yeah, I said that they should have traded for Billups and Prince. Sure, it gives them a Celtics-like window. But hey, that sure is better than having no window with Melo the centrepiece of the team. I already said that you're not going to get any young point guards for AI in a trade, and you're kidding yourself if you think he's going to Memphis for a pick. Memphis aren't about to spend all that cap space on AI, even if his contract is expiring. They already have a tonne of guards anyway. But say you traded AI, your core is now Melo, JR and whatever you get for AI (likely not much). That's no championship core.
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outstrung wrote:I read that Hollinger article too, and yeah sure, the Nuggets play the fastest pace in the league, more possessions, therefore more points allowed. I agree with all of that. However, where I disagree with Hollinger is that this somehow makes the Nuggets a good defensive team. This is BS. I already said that you're not going to get any young point guards for AI in a trade, and you're kidding yourself if you think he's going to Memphis for a pick. Memphis aren't about to spend all that cap space on AI, even if his contract is expiring. They already have a tonne of guards anyway. But say you traded AI, your core is now Melo, JR and whatever you get for AI (likely not much). That's no championship core. I take anything Hollinger says with a grain of salt, i mean the guy reckons the Jazz are the number one team in the West. All he does is throws arounds stats. I still don't believe he actually watches much NBA. But I still believe the Nuggets defend a lot better then people give them credit. They play a fast tempo style game because they have fast tempo style players. Melo, AI, Smith...of course you're gonna want them playing fast tempo. You're not gonna get them to play Spurs style. This trio, however, lies the problem. Whats that saying again: Too many chefs spoils the broth... Oh and I wasn't suggesting Memphis in particular, I just meant they should be another Camby trade, and just ship him off to a side with cap space in return for a draft pick (1st round draft pick!). Yeh they won't have a championship side, but its something for them to build on. By the time Melo reaches 30, they could have built a side worthy of championship status
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usherprince wrote:
I take anything Hollinger says with a grain of salt, i mean the guy reckons the Jazz are the number one team in the West. All he does is throws arounds stats. I still don't believe he actually watches much NBA. But I still believe the Nuggets defend a lot better then people give them credit. They play a fast tempo style game because they have fast tempo style players. Melo, AI, Smith...of course you're gonna want them playing fast tempo. You're not gonna get them to play Spurs style. This trio, however, lies the problem. Whats that saying again: Too many chefs spoils the broth...
Oh and I wasn't suggesting Memphis in particular, I just meant they should be another Camby trade, and just ship him off to a side with cap space in return for a draft pick (1st round draft pick!). Yeh they won't have a championship side, but its something for them to build on. By the time Melo reaches 30, they could have built a side worthy of championship status
Indeed, you won't get them to play slow-tempo, grind it out basketball. And they won't win playing that style for the reasons I mentioned. They can't stop anyone, and to justify that by saying they play up-tempo is wrong. That's the reason they can't stop anyone and it's the reason they don't have any success come playoffs. And as easy as it is to say let's dump AI's salary on someone else and maybe get a first round pick for him, much easier said than done. Not sure where I mentioned this, in some thread today, but shoot-first point guards aren't in fashion. I don't think there's gonna be teams out there willing to give up a whole lot for him
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usherprince wrote:Look in my opinion Melo gives his all to the Nuggets and is not responsible for their lack of success. In fact, there is no real player responsible, its more a team chemistry thing. Melo is an out-and-out scorer. Like you (and everyone else) will mention ALL THE TIME, Melo doesn't do much on D'. But so what, that shouldn't be his job.
I think if your going to be the leader of a club, which Melo wants to be, then you have to show leadership on both ends of the court. He has to make it his job to hustle and show some grind on D. All he is at the moment is a slightly better version of Glenn Robinson.
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