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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
Joined: 6/11/2007 Posts: 2,241 Location: Melbourne
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Ron Paul tells it as it is, someone sure as hell needed to set the record straight.
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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
Joined: 10/17/2004 Posts: 1,441 Location: sydney, Australia
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Difficult one this...
You could well say that yeah, Paul is right to say that Government intervention could have massive negative repercussions, but at the same time, a little intervention could have perhaps gone some way to avoiding the whole problem?
Anyway...I dont know anywhere near enough about economics or financial markets to make form an opinion one way or another.
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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
Joined: 6/11/2007 Posts: 2,241 Location: Melbourne
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The problem is that they are trying to resolve the crisis by spending money they don't have on a failed system and implementing more vacuous layers of bureaucracy. His solution - cutting excessive spending, trimming down needless bureaucracy, lowering taxes and balancing the budget (which could also help strengthen the US dollar) - is a much more advisable choice, as opposed to a cheap political stunt that will lead to further economic hardship.
He is right on the money (lulz) when he states that this $700b bailout will be little more than a means of propping up a failed system, not to mention dumping all the losses from Wall St speculators to the average taxpayer. I also love how, when Wolf queried him about workers' 401(k)'s (basically superannuation) he hit the point home that it's little good having superannuation or welfare payments when it comes in a valueless currency.
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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
Joined: 10/17/2004 Posts: 1,441 Location: sydney, Australia
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Lord Kvlt wrote:The problem is that they are trying to resolve the crisis by spending money they don't have on a failed system and implementing more vacuous layers of bureaucracy. His solution - cutting excessive spending, trimming down needless bureaucracy, lowering taxes and balancing the budget (which could also help strengthen the US dollar) - is a much more advisable choice, as opposed to a cheap political stunt that will lead to further economic hardship.
He is right on the money (lulz) when he states that this $700b bailout will be little more than a means of propping up a failed system, not to mention dumping all the losses from Wall St speculators to the average taxpayer. I also love how, when Wolf queried him about workers' 401(k)'s (basically superannuation) he hit the point home that it's little good having superannuation or welfare payments when it comes in a valueless currency. Its difficult to disagree with any of this, and one would even say that this is sensible economic management even in non-crisis times. The problem though is the company in question. Americans everywhere stand to lose big time if they were to go down (well...so they say). Its not just rich investors losing their hardly-worked dollars.
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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
Joined: 6/11/2007 Posts: 2,241 Location: Melbourne
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But the bailout passes on their losses to the average taxpayer. If you speculate and fail, it's your own damn fault.
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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
Joined: 3/19/2008 Posts: 288 Location: Newcastle
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There's also an issue with condoning the behaviour of the banks.
By taking all the bad loans off the banks, the Governance is basically saying to the banks something along the lines of 'its okay that you didn't show prudence and due care (etc.) we'll look after it but don't do it again'
Of course, if the Government is going to bail out the banks (and they don't get burnt), the banks are more likely to take the risks again, knowing the government will step in if the banks loose to much.
On the other hand, if those banks who undertook too much risk were allowed to fail then their ineffective governance practices would die along with the bank, instead rewarding the banks who showed measure and prudence with extra market share (from defunct banks).
Its an old fashioned conumdrum. Do you perserve reckless banks, maintaining (almost justiftying) their risky ways and penalise the banks that did show restraint, or do you extinguish the banks and their reckless ways, burn the economy and some investors (though in the US deposit insurance means most investors would get their money back), induce prudent practices and reward prudent banks
Of course, you can try to find the middle ground between these two policy extremes, but sometimes that's harder to justify than the poles...
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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
Joined: 10/19/2007 Posts: 8,859 Location: Wouldn't you like to know
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Totally agree with Ron Paul. The banks and borrowers really have to learn that excessive borrowing cannot be sustainable, and that it will eventually lead to a crash such as what we are seeing now. And if they keep getting bailed out, they will not learn from what has happened, and we will once again keep seeing crashes such as this one. The Government can't bail them out forever.
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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
Joined: 8/24/2008 Posts: 891 Location: Bungle Bungles
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more war maybe.... even though im all for the "war on terror"... i wouldn't put it past em that's how they got where they are taking the spoils.
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Rank: Member Groups: Member
Joined: 9/15/2008 Posts: 25 Location: Alaska
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Heres’ the real story.
Twenty years or so ago, the dipshits leftists in Washington made it clear to banks and other lending institutions that if they did not do something to bring more minorities and low-income Americans into the world of home ownership there would be a heavy price to pay. In typical Marxist fashion, Congress set up processes whereby community activist groups and organizers could effectively stop a bank’s efforts to grow if that bank didn’t make loans to unqualified borrowers.
Enter, stage left, the “subprime” mortgage. These lenders knew that a very high percentage of these loans would turn to garbage, but it was a price that had to be paid if the bank was to expand and grow.
Aside - Guess who was a big mover and shaker in one of the groups (ACORN) forcing banks into making these bad loans. The communist Barack Obama, whose campaign is now managed by the losers from the Democrat party who while working as directors, sent Fannie and Freddie down the tube at the same time as they paid themselves $90 million bonuses.
These garbage loans to unqualified borrowers were then bundled up and sold. The expectation was that the loans would be eventually paid off when rising home values led some borrowers to access their equity through re-financing and others to sell and move on up the ladder. Big mistake.
This is not a failure of the free market and capitalism. What we’re seeing is the inevitable result of political interference by dumbfuck socialists in free market economics.
ABC Bank didn’t want to loan money to Joe Homebuyer because Joe had a spotty job history, owed too much money on his credit cards, and wasn’t all that good at making payments on time. The liberal politicians (like Clinton, Obama) told ABC Bank to figure out a way to make that loan, because, after all, Joe is a straight up minority African American, or forget about opening that new branch office on the Southside.
The loan was made under political pressure and with millions like it, failed and thats why we ended up where we are. You won’t read it in the mainstream media tho. All you’ll hear is the same predictable claptrap. Over and over and over, the drumbeat of the Marxist propagandas and dogmatists, reaching as they always are for the hammer and the nails to fasten the lid on the coffin of capitalism
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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
Joined: 8/24/2008 Posts: 891 Location: Bungle Bungles
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Does the bankers that don't lend to certain people (African Americans) to keep them out ,down or Do lend to keep them in the same place have anything to do with the decision 20 years ago ? . Something like that anyway it was while ago i saw something about it.
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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
Joined: 11/10/2007 Posts: 2,079 Location: Melbourne Australia
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mabs wrote: Its an old fashioned conumdrum. Do you perserve reckless banks, maintaining (almost justiftying) their risky ways and penalise the banks that did show restraint, or do you extinguish the banks and their reckless ways, burn the economy and some investors (though in the US deposit insurance means most investors would get their money back), induce prudent practices and reward prudent banks
I agree with you but you haev to think of the banks here. If one bank gets in to the sub-prime market and is making money to begin with, then the shareholders of the other banks will be saying "where are our massive profits?" The bank then needs to find somewhere to invest that doesn't rely on property. That doesn't rely on trading with people who rely on property. What are some areas you can do that in? So even reputable institutions say make hay while the sun shines
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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
Joined: 8/22/2008 Posts: 251 Location: Toorak
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Simple really. If Capitalism gets into trouble use Socialism to rescue it.
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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
Joined: 6/11/2007 Posts: 2,241 Location: Melbourne
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Dr Paul's already made it quite clear why that would be a disgraceful move.
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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
Joined: 6/16/2007 Posts: 784 Location: Brisbane
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Yeah pretty spot on by Ron Paul there. You can't solve the problem of people living beyond their means by making another useless government department that soaks up funds and generally accomplishes little. This is a problem caused by the public themselves and their mentality to buy up with money they don't have, along with the banks accomadating this. Love the line he threw in about people in China realising to instead save their money; too true.
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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
Joined: 8/24/2008 Posts: 891 Location: Bungle Bungles
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Sounded like a bit of sour grapes at the end there. what do you Ron Paul fans think of Charles Krauthammer
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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
Joined: 11/24/2005 Posts: 330
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Socialism for the greedy wealthy fat cats who get to rely on government intervention while the average taxpayer has to live with the ravages of capitalism. Double standards or what?
Whats more the average taxpayers get to bail out the rich fatcats with their taxes when rich fatcats and big businees *****k up.
If the yank government are going to bail out big business are they going to provide social equality and responsibility and pay out half of all individual taxpayers outstanding mortgages?
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
Joined: 9/24/2008 Posts: 141
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football fever wrote:Socialism for the greedy wealthy fat cats who get to rely on government intervention while the average taxpayer has to live with the ravages of capitalism. Double standards or what?
Whats more the average taxpayers get to bail out the rich fatcats with their taxes when rich fatcats and big businees *****k up.
If the yank government are going to bail out big business are they going to provide social equality and responsibility and pay out half of all individual taxpayers outstanding mortgages? Because Socialism was to blame for this to start with..i would suspect...no. Ravages of capitalism? average taxpayer? You are aware that usually (estimate) the top 10% wealth earners "fat cats" as you call them...pay 90% of all tax right? So who is bailing them out again?
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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
Joined: 6/11/2007 Posts: 2,241 Location: Melbourne
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Being pedantic here, but most sources have the top 10% of income-earners paying 70% of taxes. Thing is, they probably account for a percentage of the nation's wealth that isn't too far off said 70%.
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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
Joined: 10/19/2007 Posts: 8,859 Location: Wouldn't you like to know
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football fever wrote:Socialism for the greedy wealthy fat cats who get to rely on government intervention while the average taxpayer has to live with the ravages of capitalism. Double standards or what?
Whats more the average taxpayers get to bail out the rich fatcats with their taxes when rich fatcats and big businees *****k up.
If the yank government are going to bail out big business are they going to provide social equality and responsibility and pay out half of all individual taxpayers outstanding mortgages? Agree with you for once.
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Rank: Sports Guru Groups: Member
Joined: 11/24/2005 Posts: 330
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[quote=Was a Warrior]
Because Socialism was to blame for this to start with..i would suspect...no.
Ravages of capitalism? average taxpayer? You are aware that usually (estimate) the top 10% wealth earners "fat cats" as you call them...pay 90% of all tax right? So who is bailing them out again?[/quote]
The government is because it is not the banks money. By your logic they (i.e.banks/mngt) should be able to ask for their money back whenever they stuff up or make a loss. They got greedy and took the risks, they stuffed up by not having adequate audit, treasury and risk management processes and practices, and hence they should face the consequences imo.
Does the average taxpayer get bailed out when they cannot meet their mortgage repayments? No.
And how is socialism to blame? By my thinking socialism policy is saving capitalism's butt on this occassion.
All this bailout proves is that when Wall Street says jump, the politicians say how high.
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