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The same Greg Norman Options
heusie18
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 4:12:27 PM
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Phat wrote:


you've obviously never heard of Jean Van de Velde.


now thats a choke lol
Phat
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 4:20:11 PM
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Sparky_Hughes wrote:
Yep was up until 4am watching this and he really did choke. A 77 for his final round. Still i think he's made this years British Open more memorable because he has come out of hybernation and matched it with the best. Well Done Gregory.


At least you aren;t one of the disparaging majority - but based on what do you think he choked?

It was a tournament where 77 was a regular occurence, and it wasn't as though he displayed obvious choke signs like failing to get out of bunkers, fluffing chips, badly missed putts, missing short makeable ones.

I'm not trying to say he actually played well, but there is a difference between poor play for poor play's sake, and actual choking where you get yourself into a winning position and it is purely nerves that undoes you.

If he was over-nervous he would not have been attacking off the tee - he would have been playing to hold his spot rather than to improve it.
Phat
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 4:20:45 PM
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heusie18 wrote:


now thats a choke lol


One of the best - it was interesting to see his his name hovering around the leaderboard this week.
Sparky_Hughes
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 4:40:06 PM
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Phat wrote:


At least you aren;t one of the disparaging majority - but based on what do you think he choked?

It was a tournament where 77 was a regular occurence, and it wasn't as though he displayed obvious choke signs like failing to get out of bunkers, fluffing chips, badly missed putts, missing short makeable ones.

I'm not trying to say he actually played well, but there is a difference between poor play for poor play's sake, and actual choking where you get yourself into a winning position and it is purely nerves that undoes you.

If he was over-nervous he would not have been attacking off the tee - he would have been playing to hold his spot rather than to improve it.


Well the way he was playing, it appeared to me he was playing within himself to a degree. I mean i have never watched Greg Norman play in my life, i mean im 18 but i never saw him at the peak of his powers in the 90's, so i'm not the best person for an opinion but i play Golf once every blue moon and i know a thing or two.
Remember he pulled out i think it was a 6 iron and didn't even make the green? And i'm not sure if he always does this, but the way he putts, does he always do that? Take so long and try to find the "Perfect" grip?
Phat
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 4:45:42 PM
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he has always putted that way - holding one hand on the putter and dropping the other hand off until it feels right. He was very deliberate and it looked to be working - he came very close with a number of putts that really had not right to look so easy.

Apart from that completely misjudged six-iron, it was purely his game off the tee that cost him, but he clearly intended to try and attack with the driver. His scrambling was outstanding and on at least four of the holes he bogeyes, he really should have double bogeyed them.

To an extent I think his driving was a symptom of his age - he tried to play like he would have done 10 years ago and smacked everything, when perhaps the more logical approach for a man of his age would have been to play conservatively.
Sparky_Hughes
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 4:49:23 PM
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Phat wrote:
he has always putted that way - holding one hand on the putter and dropping the other hand off until it feels right. He was very deliberate and it looked to be working - he came very close with a number of putts that really had not right to look so easy.

Apart from that completely misjudged six-iron, it was purely his game off the tee that cost him, but he clearly intended to try and attack with the driver. His scrambling was outstanding and on at least four of the holes he bogeyes, he really should have double bogeyed them.

To an extent I think his driving was a symptom of his age - he tried to play like he would have done 10 years ago and smacked everything, when perhaps the more logical approach for a man of his age would have been to play conservatively.


yeh true. Definitely the highlight of the British Open which without Tiger Woods just isn't the same. Wouldn't it have been great if it was Norman leading Tiger by two going into the last round?
Phat
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 4:51:40 PM
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I think in a way that would have made things better for Norman - there would have been absolutely no pressure on him then as everyone would expect Tiger to win.

This isn't a criticism as I know you can't help it, but it is sad that guys your age don't have the chance to remember how great the guy was in his time.
Mighty Spurs
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 4:56:21 PM
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Ice wrote:
Well gold and silver to you two for being the first muppets to show a complete lack of understanding of the game of golf and the term Choke. Firstly to choke is to lose from a seemingly unloseable position. His 5 shot masters loss was a choke. This was not.

Here is Guy who basically kept the game of golf exciting for the best part of 20 years. Now at 53 he still puts himself in a position to win a major. Not one of the other players in that field will be participating in majors let alone putting themselves in a position to win the thing. It was a massive effort. Sure he came up short, again, but holy *****, lets give the guy a little credit.

I'm sick of all the self confessed experts on here pretty much bagging out all and sundry and toeing the line of the masses when it comes to critisism without offering any real commentary on performance.


Couldn't have said it better.

Choke is a lame, overused phrase by lazy people who don't have enough understanding to base a proper opinion. 'Oh he had a bad round in the 4th round, it's a choke'. 'There was a bad shot at the climax of the tournament, it's a choke'. Rubbish.

What about his birdie on 15 with that bunker shot when the tournament was still on the line? Or the huge par putt on 14 (?) I think it was? He's 53 and doesn't play much anymore - is it surprising he had one bad round out of four in winds and conditions like that?
Lachy
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 4:58:50 PM
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he came tied 3rd, did you expect that at the start of the open?

Great effort and that all matters to me.
Hate it when you say he choked. Just *****.
Sparky_Hughes
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 4:59:46 PM
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Phat wrote:
I think in a way that would have made things better for Norman - there would have been absolutely no pressure on him then as everyone would expect Tiger to win.

This isn't a criticism as I know you can't help it, but it is sad that guys your age don't have the chance to remember how great the guy was in his time.


Yeh i would have loved to see him in his prime. I will be seeing Tiger though in a few years. The 2011 Presidents Cup is at Royal Melbourne and i live a stones throw away so i'll be able to see Tiger Woods and hopefully Greg makes an appearance too.
ML5
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 5:45:02 PM
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I find it very amusing that so many people feel it more appropriate to pipe on with the tedious choke debate than actually commend him for a truly amazing effort. Tall poppyism at its worst.

He barely plays these days and was still in it right up to the end pretty much. He was the highest placed aussie and made it the most memorable open in a long time.
I will remember this open more for what Greg did than anything else. I guarantee when people look back in 10 years time they will be talking about the Sharks efforts as being the lasting memory.

He was a *****king hero, I cant believe some still want to try and knock him down, especially his own countrymen.



ML5
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 5:52:32 PM
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Phat wrote:
he has always putted that way - holding one hand on the putter and dropping the other hand off until it feels right. He was very deliberate and it looked to be working - he came very close with a number of putts that really had not right to look so easy.

Apart from that completely misjudged six-iron, it was purely his game off the tee that cost him, but he clearly intended to try and attack with the driver. His scrambling was outstanding and on at least four of the holes he bogeyes, he really should have double bogeyed them.

To an extent I think his driving was a symptom of his age - he tried to play like he would have done 10 years ago and smacked everything, when perhaps the more logical approach for a man of his age would have been to play conservatively.


Spot on, I reckon he felt he had to shoot a score much lower than was needed. His option to pull the driver instead of an iron on several holes was definitely his undoing.

At least he tried to go out swinging hard though. Had he played tight and tried to defend his lead from the start and then gone onto lose we would be hearing even more muppets screaming 'choke'!!
The Chosen
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 6:11:16 PM
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willie wonka wrote:
biggest choker to ever play golf


Magnificent effort from a guy who has hardly picked up a club this year.
Perhaps it was Chrissy who gave him the inspiration- always thought she was a great sort!
'Choker'- the guy has won 78 tournaments all round the world- never restricted himself to USA or Europe- he has won everywhere.
opaque
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 6:58:37 PM
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Anyone who has played 4 rounds of golf in 4 days knows the 4th day is the worst so for a guy who is 53, and playing in the worst type of weather (wind) and doesn't play the circuit anymore made a lot of so called top pro golfers (other Aussie in the field) look pretty ordinary.
Well done Greg
PS I was glad he wasn't happy with the last round because it showed how competitive he wanted to be.
Ice
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:29:53 PM
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inefekt wrote:


This coming from a guy that's never posted on the golf forum before..............nice one, perhaps you should stick to the league forum, w4nker.


Is that the best you have. Attack the man cause what he says is spot on, nice one. I've visited most forums here pal but i just knew there would be turkeys spruiking this stuff this morning so i thought i would jump in and check it out!
Ice
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:40:41 PM
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Silence is golden inefekt, i guess you have read this and seen the weight of support for the shark and realised you badly misjudged peoples thoughts about the guy. Were you even alive when he was dominating???

Phat, you pretty much sum it all up spot on as per usual. Nice work.
inefekt
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 10:16:31 PM
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Ice wrote:
Silence is golden inefekt, i guess you have read this and seen the weight of support for the shark and realised you badly misjudged peoples thoughts about the guy. Were you even alive when he was dominating???

Phat, you pretty much sum it all up spot on as per usual. Nice work.


Silence? Just because I don't live my life in front of a pc doesn't mean I'm taking a step back from a bit of lively debate!
I just love it when people assume that most posters on these forums are 16 year olds. I've been following Norman since the early to mid 80's. And you?
The fact is Norman proved to the world that he still has the talent, skill and game to match it with the best. Over three days he proved that at 53 he was as good a golfer as anyone else in the field. He was hitting his drives over 300 yds, putting well and his course management was impeccable. I don't buy these excuses about being so old, about hardly playing golf all year blah blah blah, over three days he proved he didn't need all that tournament play and practice, his natural talent for the game overcame all of that. There was absolutely no reason why he couldn't of shot another 70 in the final round. Simple fact is he again let the pressure get to him, call it what you want it doesnt matter, all that history will show is that he again let a final round lead slip. If he had the mental toughness of Tiger he would of won so many more majors than he ended up with but unfortunately for him he's the anti-Tiger in that regard.
Also don't tell me that his 77 was 'the norm' for the field yesterday, out of the top 50 players only 5 scored 77 or worse, his score was in the bottom 10 percent. That's not the norm.
Unfortunately Greg is not the only Aussie choker, all our guys seem to wither and die when holding a 3rd round lead. Flanagan and Coles shared the third round lead in the PGA Tour event held in Milwaukee at the same time as The Open. Both faded to finish out of the top ten.
Phat
Posted: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 9:44:59 AM
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Ice wrote:
Silence is golden inefekt, i guess you have read this and seen the weight of support for the shark and realised you badly misjudged peoples thoughts about the guy. Were you even alive when he was dominating???

Phat, you pretty much sum it all up spot on as per usual. Nice work.


Thanks mate.
powerfan
Posted: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 11:50:57 AM
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inefekt wrote:



The fact is Norman proved to the world that he still has the talent, skill and game to match it with the best. Over three days he proved that at 53 he was as good a golfer as anyone else in the field. He was hitting his drives over 300 yds, putting well and his course management was impeccable. I don't buy these excuses about being so old, about hardly playing golf all year blah blah blah, over three days he proved he didn't need all that tournament play and practice, his natural talent for the game overcame all of that. There was absolutely no reason why he couldn't of shot another 70 in the final round. Simple fact is he again let the pressure get to him, call it what you want it doesnt matter, all that history will show is that he again let a final round lead slip. If he had the mental toughness of Tiger he would of won so many more majors than he ended up with but unfortunately for him he's the anti-Tiger in that regard.
Also don't tell me that his 77 was 'the norm' for the field yesterday, out of the top 50 players only 5 scored 77 or worse, his score was in the bottom 10 percent. That's not the norm.
Unfortunately Greg is not the only Aussie choker, all our guys seem to wither and die when holding a 3rd round lead. Flanagan and Coles shared the third round lead in the PGA Tour event held in Milwaukee at the same time as The Open. Both faded to finish out of the top ten.


Because he did it for 3 days there is no reason he cant do it for four?

Go talk about netball or stamp collecting.

Because a football team outscore the opposition by 5 goals at 1/4 time they should always win by 20 goals?
Because you produce the fastest lap you should produce the fastest lap or equivalent on every lap there after?

It doesn't work like that. You have other factors that play a major role in the outcome of any event. Weather, fatigue, the opposition, your mindset, their mindset, adrenalin, the list is long and endless.

How many times has Norman been in a position to win a major in the last 5 years?

Natural talent will only get you so far in any sport. The fulltime tournament play, the grind, the competing, will help you mentally prepare. Fatigue is not just of the body but also the mind. You would presume that to be in that position (leader) you have to concentrate more than the guys at the tail end of the field.

History will and has recorded Norman as a champion who should have won a few more majors but for guys pulling out the shot of the year out of their @rseholes.

W@nkers like urself can't wait to get on here and slag the guy when he has done more for the game than anyone in its history. (i better put in Australia u might get excited and want to attack that comment) His performances, over the duration of his career are outstanding and all that the British Open showed was that the guys of today are basically as good as they are because of the equipment, not because of their skill level.

Playing in the wind sorts out the men from the boys and Norman gave the young people a glimpse of his ability this weekend. Unfortunately he came up short. I'd say that was more to do with his part time dedication to the game than his lack of ability to close out a win.

To highlight his lack of play, 646th in the world........think of the world #646 tennis player taking on Nadal, Djokovic, even our "has been" Lleyton Hewitt. And you have the audacity to say he choked.

Go read what the winner said about Norman, When your peers talk about you in this manner then I cant imagine winning being as important to you (as a 53 yo part time golfer) as it seems to be for "experts" sitting in front of their TV. And that is not to say that he doesn't care he didnt win, I'm sure he did/does, but Im also guessing it would have been nothing more than a bonus.

http://sportal.com.au/golf-news-display/harrington-hails-storming-norman-52835

1 last thing b4 u go read the link, his final round 77; Many golfers win tournaments without shooting the best round of the day. Many golfers finish with a top 10 finish after shooting a poor round. Is that because many times the conditions are better in the AM while the leaders tee off in the PM ???????? Really is an ignorant comment and shows a lack of understanding about the game and yet you have been watching it for 20 years, allegedly.
ML5
Posted: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 12:14:07 PM
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powerfan wrote:


Because he did it for 3 days there is no reason he cant do it for four?

Go talk about netball or stamp collecting.

Because a football team outscore the opposition by 5 goals at 1/4 time they should always win by 20 goals?
Because you produce the fastest lap you should produce the fastest lap or equivalent on every lap there after?

It doesn't work like that. You have other factors that play a major role in the outcome of any event. Weather, fatigue, the opposition, your mindset, their mindset, adrenalin, the list is long and endless.

How many times has Norman been in a position to win a major in the last 5 years?

Natural talent will only get you so far in any sport. The fulltime tournament play, the grind, the competing, will help you mentally prepare. Fatigue is not just of the body but also the mind. You would presume that to be in that position (leader) you have to concentrate more than the guys at the tail end of the field.

History will and has recorded Norman as a champion who should have won a few more majors but for guys pulling out the shot of the year out of their @rseholes.

W@nkers like urself can't wait to get on here and slag the guy when he has done more for the game than anyone in its history. (i better put in Australia u might get excited and want to attack that comment) His performances, over the duration of his career are outstanding and all that the British Open showed was that the guys of today are basically as good as they are because of the equipment, not because of their skill level.

Playing in the wind sorts out the men from the boys and Norman gave the young people a glimpse of his ability this weekend. Unfortunately he came up short. I'd say that was more to do with his part time dedication to the game than his lack of ability to close out a win.

To highlight his lack of play, 646th in the world........think of the world #646 tennis player taking on Nadal, Djokovic, even our "has been" Lleyton Hewitt. And you have the audacity to say he choked.

Go read what the winner said about Norman, When your peers talk about you in this manner then I cant imagine winning being as important to you (as a 53 yo part time golfer) as it seems to be for "experts" sitting in front of their TV. And that is not to say that he doesn't care he didnt win, I'm sure he did/does, but Im also guessing it would have been nothing more than a bonus.

http://sportal.com.au/golf-news-display/harrington-hails-storming-norman-52835

1 last thing b4 u go read the link, his final round 77; Many golfers win tournaments without shooting the best round of the day. Many golfers finish with a top 10 finish after shooting a poor round. Is that because many times the conditions are better in the AM while the leaders tee off in the PM ???????? Really is an ignorant comment and shows a lack of understanding about the game and yet you have been watching it for 20 years, allegedly.


Great post, I really wouldnt waste your energy on it though mate. Cynicism disguised as reasoned opinion has always been the fodder of the armchair buffon.

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