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The Hawthorn Bandwagon Options
NatTheRat1
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2008 7:47:52 PM
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Location: La La Land, apparently...
Rollin rollin rollin...
The Raven
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2008 7:56:10 PM
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Location: Mighty Hawks - Premiers 2008!!
To have won two game on the road, one at Subi and one at the Gabba - these are the sorts of games Hawks fans have marked down as losses on their fixture before the season begins over the last decade - to be at round 5, and have two on-the-road wins against tough opponents, it's a great start to the season.
Bizzaro
Posted: Monday, April 21, 2008 1:38:55 PM
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The Raven wrote:
To have won two game on the road, one at Subi and one at the Gabba - these are the sorts of games Hawks fans have marked down as losses on their fixture before the season begins over the last decade - to be at round 5, and have two on-the-road wins against tough opponents, it's a great start to the season.


I would have been happy to be 3-2 right now, damn I must have underated the Hawks during the pre-season Wink
The Raven
Posted: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:42:38 PM
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Location: Mighty Hawks - Premiers 2008!!
Bizzaro wrote:


I would have been happy to be 3-2 right now, damn I must have underated the Hawks during the pre-season Wink


Good call!!
trismegistos
Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:55:25 AM
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Joined: 6/17/2007
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Location: Melbourne
NatTheRat1 wrote:
Rollin rollin rollin...


Keep those Hawks a rolling!
The Raven
Posted: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:02:14 PM
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Go Hawks!!
The Raven
Posted: Thursday, April 24, 2008 9:09:55 PM
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I wonder if we are still over-rated...
HAWKS 2009
Posted: Thursday, April 24, 2008 9:26:34 PM
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The Raven wrote:
I wonder if we are still over-rated...


Certain Hawthorn haters have gone missing... I wonder if that means we are not overrated anymore? Another tough game this weekend, Geeze it would be nice to go 6 - 0. But one week at a time and all that. I for one am not underestimating the tigers, they have been good the last 2 weeks, albeit against bottom 8 sides.
HAWKS 2009
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2008 8:40:16 AM
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I reckon a few people willl find this interesting:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,23631669-19742,00.html

GENERAL Cluster rides again. Tomorrow the MCG will host a perverse clash of tactics and philosophies because both teams want to own the same piece of turf.

General Cluster - Alastair Clarkson - likes to destroy teams on the wings and Mick Malthouse likes to ensure victory by hugging the wings when he goes forward, far more than anyone else in the league.

The battleground is obvious, the result not so.

Clarko's cluster is pivotal in Hawthorn's drive for success. Described by Terry Wallace as revolutionary, it takes a 15-man zone to a new level, morphing from one phase to another to ensure the opposition plays the game on Hawthorn's terms.

Phase 1 begins at opposition kick-ins, where the cluster is a pyramid-like formation that guards the corridor, but invites the opposition to kick wide to empty space.

But as soon as they do that, the cluster quickly morphs into Phase 2, which is more of a grid formation.

The primary objective is to cause a stoppage or a turnover as close to Hawthorn's goal as possible, thus protecting the Hawks' defensive end.

The grid moves from side to side depending on where the ball is and closes in on the wings once a team commits to one side.

You take on the grid in the corridor at your own peril.

The cluster has reversed the trend of pushing back to get the ball off the opposition.

The raw numbers tell you it has been an outstanding success, with Hawthorn conceding the fewest entries into their defensive 50 since records were taken.

After six rounds, the Hawks are conceding an average of 41.7 inside 50s a match, five fewer than any other team and two fewer than the Swans in 2005, who won a premiership based on defence at levels never seen before.

Hawthorn's opponents get the ball into their forward 50 in an unbroken chain of possession from just 20 per cent of kick-ins.

Geelong, by comparison, concedes an inside 50 from 33 per cent of kick-ins. Melbourne is running at 56 per cent, and Essendon 52 per cent.

Further *****ysis of the numbers tells you why the cluster approach is so important, and also where the Hawks' achilles heel lies.

Once inside the defensive 50 Hawthorn is at its most vulnerable, with opponents kicking goals 30 per cent of the time.

This figure is by far the worst of any of the teams in the top eight and only marginally better than the winless Demons, who concede goals from 30.7 per cent of opposition forward 50 entries.

If the cluster fails, so too will the Hawks.

The cluster lives on gang tackling and tomorrow Collingwood players lured into the cluster will be attacked from all angles - front, back and sides. Once inside the grid, few survive.

In 2006, Hawthorn was the worst tackling side in the competition. Last year the Hawks ranked 15th. This year they are second, but the general won't be happy until they top the rankings.

For the cluster to work, three defenders must leave their men in the back half to become part of the grid, a complete break from the man-on-man defence that has been part of footy since the start of time.

The cluster is a continuation of Clarkson's lateral thinking and his willingness to try advanced strategies of attack - such as Buddy's Box, introduced last year - and defence, such as the cluster, in his push for success.

Today, the general's opposition is different to anyone else the Hawks will play. The Magpies move the ball quickly by long kicks, much more than by handball.

The cluster is under the microscope to see if it can cope with a quick, long-kicking team.

Last week, Terry Wallace started the game by trying to handball through the cluster up the corridor.
It was a disaster and the Tigers only found themselves in the match through persistence and moving the ball quickly around the cluster's perimeter before it had a chance to realign itself.

The worrying signs for the general is that over the past two weeks there have been a couple of deep cracks opening up behind the cluster; the Hawks have conceded a competition-high 40 per cent of forward 50 entries turning into goals, which makes it paramount that it holds firm.

Against Brisbane in Round 5, the Lions scored 17.16 from 48 entries, and last week the Tigers kicked 15 goals from 33 entries.

This suggests they formed a weak spot in high-scoring areas in front of goals, despite getting it there on very few occasions.

Trent Croad's return last week bolstered the Hawks' big-man capacity, but the man who tomorrow stands between victory and defeat for both teams could be Anthony Rocca.

Whether he was injured or dropped last week has been debated, but tomorrow it's largely irrelevant.

What is important is that his marking and goalkicking are capable of inflicting the season's first defeat on the general, if the ball gets into the Collingwood forward line often enough.

Every team will be trying to get the ball behind the cluster as quickly as possible to isolate Hawthorn defenders deep in dangerous spots.

Expect Collingwood to get the ball back into play fast and get tall targets Josh Fraser, Travis Cloke and Cameron Wood to provide targets for long kicks to the wings in an effort to get around the defensive grid.

Nothing inspires Malthouse more than a battle of wit and strategy.

Making the battle even more intriguing, for the first time this season Collingwood did not publish its training times and could well have had some private sessions to practise counter-cluster drills away from the Lexus Centre.

Hawthorn, meanwhile, has a first-hand knowledge of Mick's thinking, having recruited his right-hand man John Wardrop to the match committee over summer.

Tomorrow you'll get it all, so get there early - but only if you have a strong stomach, because the carnage may be significant.

Tomorrow we find out if the general's new-age defence can cope with Malthouse's old-age attack. Will the cluster be kicked to death?
NatTheRat1
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2008 11:53:48 AM
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Location: La La Land, apparently...
HAWKS 2009 wrote:


Jeez, I reckon this whole thing is getting a bit blown out of proportion.

Okay, so 'tactically' the rolling zone is 'new' and has created some interest, but IMO Hawks have designed their 'zone' around the capabilities of the team, not vice versa. It's 'newness' is all very interesting as a side-line, but without the cattle, it doesn't matter how good your tactics are. Something tells me Clarkson is gunning for some limelight here.

Hard, fast, selfless, accurate footy is always going to win you heaps of games. It ain't that complicated.
Wiljoy
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2008 12:36:42 PM
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semz wrote:
To me, your forward line is OK, midfield excellent.. and defense pretty poor. Hawks will make the top 4 but it will be out of Collingwood and Geelong for the premiership.



Your prediction is looking a bit sick now,isn't it semz??

I think Geelong MIGHT make the final to challenge the mighty Hawks,.....but wev;e got FRANKLIN, ROUGHEAD,WILLIAMS,&RIOLI.
how can the Cats challenge them???
Gmac_RFC
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2008 1:39:32 PM
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Location: Melbourne w00t
Wiljoy wrote:



Your prediction is looking a bit sick now,isn't it semz??

I think Geelong MIGHT make the final to challenge the mighty Hawks,.....but wev;e got FRANKLIN, ROUGHEAD,WILLIAMS,&RIOLI.
how can the Cats challenge them???


Easily. :')
The Raven
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2008 8:30:13 PM
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Wiljoy wrote:



Your prediction is looking a bit sick now,isn't it semz??

I think Geelong MIGHT make the final to challenge the mighty Hawks,.....but wev;e got FRANKLIN, ROUGHEAD,WILLIAMS,&RIOLI.
how can the Cats challenge them???


You're obviously joking.

Geelong are the best side in the caper, they are the most disciplined and the best drilled unit going around. Geelong are looking awesome, and if Hawthorn play at their best they MIGHT be able to challenge the Cats, as might the Bulldogs, the Crows, or the Saints. Collingwood, North Melbourne, Sydney, Port Adelaide and Brisbane are all strong sides too. This season is far from a one or two horse race, but if it is a one-horse race it is still Geelong's race, and it is still up to every other side to catch up to them. Hawthorn still have a long way to go.
sammyL31
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:47:33 PM
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The Raven wrote:


Hawthorn still have a long way to go.


was just about to pay out on hawks fans til i saw that
they are pretty pleased with themselves atm and dont blame them but cmon u would think that theyve just won the premiership wit all this braggin... its only 1/3 of a season down! alot will change
The Raven
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:56:36 PM
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sammyL31 wrote:


was just about to pay out on hawks fans til i saw that
they are pretty pleased with themselves atm and dont blame them but cmon u would think that theyve just won the premiership wit all this braggin... its only 1/3 of a season down! alot will change


We've done well thus far, but we're only 7 rounds in. We've got the Bulldogs, Port Adelaide at Aurora, and Adelaide at AAMI coming up. They will all be stern tests before we even reach the halfway mark of the season. There's lots left to prove before we even get near Round 17, let alone the Finals.
sammyL31
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2008 10:02:39 PM
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its not how well u play in april but in september!
injuries, suspensions, fatigue mite set in
hawks were clearly better this weekend but things mite be different if pies had cloke rocca and rusling and hawks only had one of buddy roughy and williams
that just shows how finely balanced this comp is

anyways goood luck to the hawks hopefully next time collingwood plays them it will be in the grand final with a different scoreline

EDIT: its actually gonna be round 18 friday night footy pies v hawks
HAWKS 2009
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2008 10:23:05 PM
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I wonder how those Hawks and Magpie forward line comparisons are looking now. Laughing

Sammy you are exactly right, finals are what counts. Hopefully Hawthorn can really step up this year in September. I think it was a huge benefit to the team to play in front of 75000+ this week.

On Rocca and Rusling, Rocca has had knives thrown at him for the past week with several supporters saying the team is better off without him. Sadly with Rusling and his shoulder, I wonder if we are ever going to see the best of him, which is a shame because he is obviously a great talent. Heres hoping they can get it right.
The Raven
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2008 11:24:16 PM
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HAWKS 2009 wrote:
I wonder how those Hawks and Magpie forward line comparisons are looking now. Laughing


The best side won on the day, the best forward line was clearly more potent on the day.

This result speaks volumes in the Hawks v Magpies comparisons.
HAWKS 2009
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2008 11:28:12 PM
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The Raven wrote:


The best side won on the day, the best forward line was clearly more potent on the day.

This result speaks volumes in the Hawks v Magpies comparisons.


We are very lucky to have Roughie Buddy Willo and Cyril in the same team! I'm tipping Roughead to get somewenre around 60 - 80 goals this year, Buddy 80+ and Williams (If he stays fit) around 40.

Man thats a lot of firepower.

Hope the shoulder niggles that Buddy is carrying dont turn out to be anything too serious. Must admit I am a little worried.
The Raven
Posted: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 11:43:11 AM
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jabbers64 wrote:


Raven
2008 Accuracy

Cloke 100.0%
Rocca 72.7%
Franklin 71.4%
Roughead 58.3%
Boyle 57.1%

Nice Work Pies so Far. But the more important one.

Goals

Franklin 10
Rocca 8
Roughead 7
Boyle 4
Cloke 3


How are the figures shaping up now...anyone??
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