|
|
Rank: Sports Guru
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/12/2007
Posts: 3,116
Location: Mighty Hawks - Premiers 2008!!
|
semz wrote:To me, your forward line is OK, midfield excellent.. and defense pretty poor. Hawks will make the top 4 but it will be out of Collingwood and Geelong for the premiership. That's funny. Buddy, Roughy, Boyle & Rioli, with Williams to return from injury (hopefully next week) is an "OK" forward line? Miles ahead of Collingwood's forward line. Hawthorn have a stronger midfield than Collingwood, and have a defence that is at least on par, if not superior. You rate Hawthorn in this fashion then go on to claim Collingwood will play in the GF this year? That's funny.
|
|
Rank: Sports Guru
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/12/2007
Posts: 3,116
Location: Mighty Hawks - Premiers 2008!!
|
semz wrote:
I think you'd find that has more to do with your midfield rather than your forwards themselves. Our inside 50's to goal ratio is higher than yours. In 2006 we had the highest scoring team in the competition.
Don't get me wrong, Hawthorn do have a very good forward line. But it's not as good as Collingwoods.
Like I said. Funny. Collingwood's forward line is not in the same league as Hawthorn's.
|
|
Rank: Sports Guru
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/12/2007
Posts: 3,116
Location: Mighty Hawks - Premiers 2008!!
|
semz wrote:
Rioli? He got 66 super coach points and everyone reckons he's a freak
"Hodge, Bateman"
What about your midfield???????
Medhurst - ordinary Rocca/Cloke - no match for Buddy, Roughy, & Boyle Fraser - he's ordinary, I'd take Taylor/Campbell combo any day Didak - credit where it's due, very good player, but no more damaging than Williams Thomas - reasonable Davis - hot/cold Egan - why is he in your list? Reid - ditto, got no more points on the board than Thorp and Dowler Dawes to come in -- Dowler, Thorp, Morton, Kennedy, Bailey, Renouf to come in (and Muston, if he hadn't have done his knee) Midfield: Hodge, Bateman, Mitchell, Sewell, Lewis, Crawford, Young, Ladson, Dew, Ellis - that's a midfield, mate. Pies can't top that. Rioli's just a kid who's got a great future. It's hardly as though he won the game for Hawthorn. Collingwood should make the eight this year, but they are not in Hawthorn's class in '08.
|
|
Rank: Sports Guru
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/15/2007
Posts: 2,754
Location: Darwin
|
Mighty_bombers_2008 wrote:LMFAO u beat Melbourne who i tipped last so you should beat them easy
but when it comes down to the finals you hawks are .......
CHOKERS Yeah, like the way we choked in 96 against Sydney and 99 against Cyarlton and only won 1 premiership when we dominated the comp for 3 years between 99-2001. Oh... hang on.. that wasn't Hawthorn.. it was ahhh.. what's that team called? Hawks lost 1 of 2 finals last year and we were tipped to lose the first one. The only final I can ever remember Hawthorn choking was in 93 against the Crows.
|
|
Rank: Sports Guru
Groups: Member
Joined: 8/17/2007
Posts: 1,544
Location: Geelong
|
Bizzaro wrote:
Ok then.
Boyle, Williams, Roughead, Rioli, Dew, Stokes, Hodge, Bateman will all kick about a goal a week. Then there is a possibility of Crawf, Taylor, Cambell, Guerra getting the odd goal then if Buddy plays consistently we will easily be kicking close to 17-20 goals a week. Better than most teams from any era or season.
Hang on hang on......you won't be playing against the likes of Nathan Carroll every week.
|
|
Rank: Sports Guru
Groups: Member
Joined: 11/21/2007
Posts: 2,285
Location: closer to you than you think
|
Jimmylt wrote:Hang on hang on......you won't be playing against the likes of Nathan Carroll every week. dw nathan brown wnt be much after he gets brought back down to earth by big browny
|
|
Rank: Sports Guru
Groups: Member
Joined: 8/6/2007
Posts: 2,822
Location: hendra, brisbane, australia
|
i am not jumping on the band wagon after them beating a pretty ordinary team. lets see how they go against the top teams like. geelong, port, collingwood
|
|
Rank: Sports Guru
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/15/2007
Posts: 1,373
Location: melbourne
|
Ok let's get things clear here, seem to be some really simple people involved in this thread, of the Hawthorn breed. Bizzaro wrote:Ok Smez, you stick with the Collingwood line. We didn't have Rioli and Stokes last year and we are only going to get better.
Have you ever heard of the Colliwobbles?
At least your coach is not a hasbeen living in the past.... haha..
Damn.. I don't mind the Magpies untill I start talking to their supporters. Your talking to Collingwood supporters who are being one eyed and jumping on the bandwagon. Guess what? Exactly what you are doing, so I guess all supporters hate talking to Hawks supporters cause of the same thing? Bizzaro wrote:
Both teams that Hawks have accounted for in the last 12 months.
HAWKS 2009 wrote:
I'm glad you have used the full extent of your football knowledge to base that on all of 1 game.
Good stuff hawthorn supporters! (and for point of reference, Hawthorn at full strength beat a Collingwood missing key players last year, and only just got over the line. I'm not arguing either team to be better/worse at this point in time, I just find this whole thread a bit of a.... contradiction....)
|
|
Rank: Sports Guru
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/20/2007
Posts: 1,740
Location: donvale
|
This is a huge danger game for Hawthorn this week and will paint a more accurate picture of where they are at. Hawks fans are starting to sound a bit foolish when they start declaring Rioli and Stokes as top line forwards. Give the kids a chance!
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 2/20/2008
Posts: 110
Location: Melbourne
|
"Medhurst - ordinary" In your opinion. "Rocca/Cloke - no match for Buddy, Roughy, & Boyle" For Franklin, no... but easily have roughy and boyles number "Fraser - he's ordinary, I'd take Taylor/Campbell combo any day" rofl, cute. "Didak - credit where it's due, very good player, but no more damaging than Williams" HAHAHAHAHAH "Thomas - reasonable" This guy is the next Gary Ablett and all you got is "reasonable" "Davis - hot/cold" Just like Buddy, eh? "Egan - why is he in your list?" Massive potential, 21 possesions last week. "Reid - ditto, got no more points on the board than Thorp and Dowler" lol yeah right mate. Reid was rick 8 in the 2006 draft as the youngest player in the draft... if we went last year he would have been number 1 for sure. "Dawes to come in -- Dowler, Thorp, Morton, Kennedy, Bailey, Renouf to come in (and Muston, if he hadn't have done his knee)" None of these players have dawes potential... and don't use muston as an example... he's not going to be playing any more afl. "Midfield: Hodge, Bateman, Mitchell, Sewell, Lewis, Crawford, Young, Ladson, Dew, Ellis - that's a midfield, mate. Pies can't top that." I thought we were talking forward lines here?? you talking about midfield now while including hodge and bateman, but you put them in your forward line...... so confusing...... ellis? is that the hack that the pies let slide for superstar dale thomas? who's had the better career? who's going to have the better career? Great choice pies  "Rioli's just a kid who's got a great future. It's hardly as though he won the game for Hawthorn." What's he done apart from running very quick and being sneaky like most other abo players? *****k all, he's done nothing mate so stop talking him up. and with a name like Rioli, you'd best be keeping the lid on
|
|
Rank: Sports Guru
Groups: Member
Joined: 9/16/2007
Posts: 1,217
Location: HAWTHORN PREMIERS 2008
|
tc wrote:Ok let's get things clear here, seem to be some really simple people involved in this thread, of the Hawthorn breed.
Good stuff hawthorn supporters! (and for point of reference, Hawthorn at full strength beat a Collingwood missing key players last year, and only just got over the line. I'm not arguing either team to be better/worse at this point in time, I just find this whole thread a bit of a.... contradiction....) tc..... My quote was a reference to the "hawthorn Chokers" claim... nothing else... BTW Hawthorn was missing key players in that game as well.
|
|
Rank: Sports Guru
Groups: Member
Joined: 2/10/2006
Posts: 3,082
|
Toot Toot.... Get on the Hawks trains. It started round 1
I am sure Mattdougie has this thread in his note book and will be ready to bring it up if the wheels fall off latter in the season.
|
|
Rank: Sports Guru
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/11/2007
Posts: 3,408
Location: 2D
|
I not changing to Hawks but they will be in the grand final against geelong this year imo. Geelong beating Port anf Hawks beating Brisbane to make the grand final.
|
|
Rank: Sports Guru
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/20/2007
Posts: 1,740
Location: donvale
|
The Raven wrote:
Medhurst - ordinary
Rocca/Cloke - no match for Buddy, Roughy, & Boyle
Fraser - he's ordinary, I'd take Taylor/Campbell combo any day
Didak - credit where it's due, very good player, but no more damaging than Williams
Thomas - reasonable
Davis - hot/cold
Egan - why is he in your list?
Reid - ditto, got no more points on the board than Thorp and Dowler
Dawes to come in -- Dowler, Thorp, Morton, Kennedy, Bailey, Renouf to come in (and Muston, if he hadn't have done his knee)
Midfield: Hodge, Bateman, Mitchell, Sewell, Lewis, Crawford, Young, Ladson, Dew, Ellis - that's a midfield, mate. Pies can't top that.
Rioli's just a kid who's got a great future. It's hardly as though he won the game for Hawthorn.
Collingwood should make the eight this year, but they are not in Hawthorn's class in '08.
This has the potential to get silly, but I can't let that post pass Rocca/Cloke & Fraser- no match for Buddy, Roughy, & Boyle?- Roughead yet to develop any consistency, Boyle just goes. Fraser was injured all last year and people forget he was in Pies best couple in both GF appearnaces. Big game player who is a better forward. Small Forwards easily Collingwoods way Didak, Davis, Thomas & Medhurst miles ahead of Rioli, Williams and Stokes. Hodge (Great), Bateman(Great), , Mitchell(Great), , Sewell (OK), Lewis(OK), Crawford(past it), Young(OK), Ladson(Just goes), Dew(You Are Kidding), Ellis(unfulfilled) Pendlebury, Thomas, Clarke, Burns, Holland, Didak, Davis, O'Bree almost on par there. Our backline is clearly better with Hawthorn's undersized and susceptible to power forwards. Collingwood is younger and went further last year.
|
|
Rank: Sports Guru
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/12/2007
Posts: 3,116
Location: Mighty Hawks - Premiers 2008!!
|
Jan Venegoor of Centerlink wrote:"Medhurst - ordinary" In your opinion. "Rocca/Cloke - no match for Buddy, Roughy, & Boyle" For Franklin, no... but easily have roughy and boyles number "Fraser - he's ordinary, I'd take Taylor/Campbell combo any day" rofl, cute. "Didak - credit where it's due, very good player, but no more damaging than Williams" HAHAHAHAHAH "Thomas - reasonable" This guy is the next Gary Ablett and all you got is "reasonable" "Davis - hot/cold" Just like Buddy, eh? "Egan - why is he in your list?" Massive potential, 21 possesions last week. "Reid - ditto, got no more points on the board than Thorp and Dowler" lol yeah right mate. Reid was rick 8 in the 2006 draft as the youngest player in the draft... if we went last year he would have been number 1 for sure. "Dawes to come in -- Dowler, Thorp, Morton, Kennedy, Bailey, Renouf to come in (and Muston, if he hadn't have done his knee)" None of these players have dawes potential... and don't use muston as an example... he's not going to be playing any more afl. "Midfield: Hodge, Bateman, Mitchell, Sewell, Lewis, Crawford, Young, Ladson, Dew, Ellis - that's a midfield, mate. Pies can't top that." I thought we were talking forward lines here?? you talking about midfield now while including hodge and bateman, but you put them in your forward line...... so confusing...... ellis? is that the hack that the pies let slide for superstar dale thomas? who's had the better career? who's going to have the better career? Great choice pies "Rioli's just a kid who's got a great future. It's hardly as though he won the game for Hawthorn." What's he done apart from running very quick and being sneaky like most other abo players? *****k all, he's done nothing mate so stop talking him up. and with a name like Rioli, you'd best be keeping the lid on Great way to make no sense whatsover. I outlined Hawthorn's midfield in response to the previous poster's comment specifically directed at Hawthorn's midfield. - Medhurst wouldn't get a run in Hawthorn's starting 22 - Rocca and Cloke make a good forward line, but they were shown up in 07 by Buddy, Roughy and Boyle - the stats back this statement up. - You over-rate Fraser. He's simply not that effective. - You have no basis for your comment about Thomas - the next Gary Ablett? What the...? - When has Didak ever kicked 60 goals in a season? Williams has done it twice. - No one would rate Davis as being in Buddy's class - Egan, Reid - I never stated they don't have potential, but they have no more than potential at this point, which is what Dowler (pick 6 in the draft), Thorp (pick 6 in the draft), and Bailey (pick 18 in the draft) have - so why are Reid and Egan more noteworthy of mention? - Thomas was pick 2 in the draft, Ellis was pick 3 in the same draft. Thomas was a surprise pick, all the pundits expected Ellis to go at two, and he spent his entire first season playing school footy, and his second pre-season was injury interrupted, so 2008 is Ellis' first full season, it is Thomas' third, so you would expect Thomas to be ahead at this point. Watch Ellis in 2008 - he'll show his worth. - Dowler, Thorp, Morton, Kennedy, Bailey, Renouf and Muston all have as much or more potential than Dawes. We have this little game in Australia we play, it's called Aussie Rules. Have you ever come across it? You must be a soccer or Rugby League fan or something, because you seem to have virtually no knowledge of Aussie Rules at all.
|
|
Rank: Sports Guru
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/20/2007
Posts: 1,740
Location: donvale
|
The Raven wrote:
Great way to make no sense whatsover.
I outlined Hawthorn's midfield in response to the previous poster's comment specifically directed at Hawthorn's midfield.
- Medhurst wouldn't get a run in Hawthorn's starting 22
- Rocca and Cloke make a good forward line, but they were shown up in 07 by Buddy, Roughy and Boyle - the stats back this statement up. When Rusling was there as well it would have been an interesteing comparison
- You over-rate Fraser. He's simply not that effective. He has been injured for two years-watch him as a forward
- You have no basis for your comment about Thomas - the next Gary Ablett? What the...? Of course not but a better small forward than any Hawk- When has Didak ever kicked 60 goals in a season? Williams has done it twice. As a lead up key option-he won't be that any more with your forward structure-he is not a traditional small forward and will struggle to find a place this year. Didak sets up goals for others with his vision and disposal. A much better player than Williams- No one would rate Davis as being in Buddy's class No but again a better small forward than the Hawks have- Egan, Reid - I never stated they don't have potential, but they have no more than potential at this point, which is what Dowler (pick 6 in the draft), Thorp (pick 6 in the draft), and Bailey (pick 18 in the draft) have - so why are Reid and Egan more noteworthy of mention? Agreed let's wait and see.- Thomas was pick 2 in the draft, Ellis was pick 3 in the same draft. Thomas was a surprise pick, all the pundits expected Ellis to go at two, and he spent his entire first season playing school footy, and his second pre-season was injury interrupted, so 2008 is Ellis' first full season, it is Thomas' third, so you would expect Thomas to be ahead at this point. Watch Ellis in 2008 - he'll show his worth. Ellis will be a player-I think Thomas will always be ahead.- Dowler, Thorp, Morton, Kennedy, Bailey, Renouf and Muston all have as much or more potential than Dawes. futile till we see them in action
.
|
|
Rank: Sports Guru
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/20/2007
Posts: 1,227
|
jabbers64 wrote:
This has the potential to get silly, but I can't let that post pass
Rocca/Cloke & Fraser- no match for Buddy, Roughy, & Boyle?- Roughead yet to develop any consistency, Boyle just goes. Fraser was injured all last year and people forget he was in Pies best couple in both GF appearnaces. Big game player who is a better forward.
Small Forwards easily Collingwoods way Didak, Davis, Thomas & Medhurst miles ahead of Rioli, Williams and Stokes.
Hodge (Great), Bateman(Great), , Mitchell(Great), , Sewell (OK), Lewis(OK), Crawford(past it), Young(OK), Ladson(Just goes), Dew(You Are Kidding), Ellis(unfulfilled)
Pendlebury, Thomas, Clarke, Burns, Holland, Didak, Davis, O'Bree almost on par there.
Our backline is clearly better with Hawthorn's undersized and susceptible to power forwards.
Collingwood is younger and went further last year.
From a Bulldogs supporter, i think you were making alot of sense talking about Collingwoods forward line, i think it is atleast on par with Hawthorn... But when you rattled off them names of collingwoods midfielders.. lets be honest Hawks midfield completely out-class's it. Both backlines are the weakpoint of the teams but still very good. I would say the Backlines are about level par.
|
|
Rank: Sports Guru
Groups: Member
Joined: 9/16/2007
Posts: 1,217
Location: HAWTHORN PREMIERS 2008
|
God I love Collingwood supporters. From this thread I have learned: Leon Davis is as good as Lance Franklin Dale Thomas is as good, or is going to be as good as Garry Ablett Ben Reid is going to be a better forward than Mitch Thorp because he was drafted at number 8 (what number did Thorp go at again??)  
|
|
Rank: Sports Guru
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/20/2007
Posts: 1,740
Location: donvale
|
SquidgeY wrote:
From a Bulldogs supporter, i think you were making alot of sense talking about Collingwoods forward line, i think it is atleast on par with Hawthorn...
But when you rattled off them names of collingwoods midfielders.. lets be honest Hawks midfield completely out-class's it.
Both backlines are the weakpoint of the teams but still very good. I would say the Backlines are about level par.
I did rate their midfield ahead. But if you look at last year Collingwood's midfield was rarely beaten.
|
|
Rank: Sports Guru
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/12/2007
Posts: 264
|
I've endured years of suffering and disappointment with the Hawks since the golden 80s and i'm not about to get ahead of myself now. We played well and deserved to win by 100points, but Melbourne were woeful. Hawthorn will match it with all the victorian teams without a doubt, collingwood, st kilda and geelong all being teams highly regarded for the flag this year which we did account for last season. The problem for Hawthorn lies in their interstate form (or lack thereof); apart from Port last year we struggled interstate. That, and when teams like the Kangeroos or Adelaide stem our flow is what we need to learn from. Hawthorn will only be legitimate challengers for the flag if Clarkson can adopt a more flexible game plan if and when plan a doesnt succeed, and if we can start winning interstate.
Despite what everyone is saying, Freo at Subi will be a decent litmus test for Hawthorns chance at the flag. In reality, this is a game we should win
|
|
|
Guest |
